Real Stovetop Mac and Cheese
The best stovetop mac and cheese! This recipe is like blue box mac and cheese, but made with real cheddar cheese. It's creamy, delicious and so easy to make!
Updated by Kathryne Taylor on July 10, 2024
Meet my all-time favorite mac and cheese recipe! This recipe has been in the works for over one year, no exaggeration. It has taken me that long to find my go-to mac and cheese method.
I wanted a classic stovetop recipe, like the blue box mac and cheese I grew up enjoying. But, I wanted to make my stovetop mac and cheese with real ingredients. I wanted it to be creamy and deliciously cheesy—but not oozing with so much cheese that I had to take a nap afterward.
Here is my ultimate mac and cheese recipe, which meets all of the above requirements. I purposefully used yellow cheddar and noodles that remind me of the boxed variety. It’s made simply with cheddar cheese and cream, and a few subtle dried spices to ramp up the flavor.
The best part? This mac and cheese could not be easier to make. Homemade mac and cheese for the win!
The Best Stovetop Mac and Cheese
Four reasons to love this mac and cheese recipe:
- It offers all the rich cheesy flavor and creamy texture you crave.
- You won’t need butter or flour for this recipe, and I promise you won’t miss either of them.
- Without the flour, the glorious sharp cheddar flavor really shines through.
- It’s really easy to make this mac gluten free. Just use gluten-free pasta!
I owe Melissa Clark credit for this technique. I stumbled across her stovetop mac and cheese recipe in her new book, Dinner: Changing the Game. It’s also available online at Food52.
My changes? Her recipe calls for freshly grated nutmeg, but I found that mac and cheese needs a few other spices to be utterly irresistible: mustard powder, garlic powder and onion powder, and the tiniest pinch of cayenne pepper. That combination is subtle but makes a world of difference. Trust me.
I also adjusted the method, since it was a little unreliable for me. This mac and cheese turns out perfectly every time as written below.
NOTES ON OTHER METHODS
Before I stumbled on this technique, I tried mac and cheese recipes with béchamel sauce, both stovetop versions and baked. No matter the recipe, the béchamel versions turned out somewhat grainy and floury-tasting.
I also tried mac and cheese with evaporated milk, which seemed more like Velveeta than real cheese and left me with a stomachache. I tried mac and cheese with Monterey Jack, too, which offers less flavor than cheddar and produces an excessively gooey texture (that’s right—I didn’t want gloppy mac!).
I tried some totally unconventional methods, too. I tried to get away with using pasta-cooking water instead of cream, and that left me with a stringy mess. I even tried mac and cheese recipes with cauliflower purée or yogurt, and those were not mac and cheese. My simple cheddar-and-cream version is by far the best!
Stovetop Mac and Cheese Tips
Use quality cheddar cheese. The cheese is the predominant flavor here (and rightly so). I prefer sharp or extra-sharp cheddar cheese for maximum cheddar flavor.
Grate the cheese by hand. Pre-shredded cheese is coated with starch or cellulose to prevent the shreds from sticking together. Those unnecessary ingredients can prevent you from obtaining a perfectly creamy melted cheese sauce.
Better pasta makes better mac and cheese. I love Montebello’s organic strozzapretti noodles (affiliate link/those are the noodles you see in these photos). I buy them at Natural Grocers or my local health food store.
Make sure your ingredients are measured and ready. This recipe comes together so quickly. You won’t have time to measure the ingredients before it’s time to add the next one!
Don’t overcook the cream. Letting the cream boil too long reduces the moisture content to the point that the cheese sauce ends up stringy. Start the one-minute timer once it starts boiling (which might be the second the cream hits the pan) and you will end up with perfect sauce.
Want to lighten up this mac and cheese?
This mac and cheese is made with real cheese and real cream. It’s insanely delicious and worth it. That said, here are a few ideas on how to make it more nutritionally redeeming:
Substitute half and half for the heavy cream. Half and half is equal parts heavy cream and whole milk. Your mac and cheese won’t be quite as creamy or rich, but it’s still very good.
Add veggies! Reduce the amount of pasta to 6 ounces. Add 1 1/2 to 2 cups chopped broccoli florets (from 1 head of broccoli) or 1 cup fresh or frozen peas to the pasta pot when just 2 to 3 minutes of pasta cooking time remain. Drain and stir into the cheese sauce as directed. Or, stir 1 to 2 cups roasted or cooked vegetables in at the end. Roasted Brussels sprouts are great.
Use high-quality ingredients. Grass-fed dairy tends to be higher in healthy Omega-3s. Buy organic cheese and cream to avoid added growth hormones.
Use whole grain pasta. This won’t reduce the calories or fat, but it will add whole grains and increase the fiber content. That will make the mac and cheese more filling. My favorite brands of whole wheat pasta are DeLallo and Bionaturae.
Use a more voluminous noodle shape. (Such as rotini, fusilli or chiocciole.) This won’t reduce the calories or fat, either, but it makes it seem like you’re eating more pasta because it fills more of your bowl. If you swap other noodle shapes for the macaroni, measure them in ounces (8 ounces is usually half of the box) instead of cups (you’ll need more than 2 cups; the exact number depends on the shape).
OTHER OPTIONS
Looking for a plant-based mac and cheese recipe? This recipe is not a good candidate for making vegan, but I highly recommend my vegan mac and cheese recipe—it’s a creamy stovetop mac and cheese like this one.
Looking for lighter, veggie-packed pasta dishes? I have lots of pasta recipes for you!
This mac and cheese has become a staple recipe in my kitchen and I hope it becomes your go-to mac and cheese, too.
Please let me know how you like this mac and cheese in the comments! Your star ratings with your comment are tremendously helpful, too.
Watch How to Make Mac and Cheese
Real Stovetop Mac and Cheese
The best stovetop mac and cheese! This recipe is like blue box mac and cheese, but made with real cheddar cheese. It’s creamy, delicious and so easy to make! Recipe yields 3 modest or 2 generous servings; multiply and use a larger pot as necessary.
Ingredients
- 8 ounces (2 cups) regular or whole-wheat macaroni noodles
- 2 teaspoons salt, for the pasta cooking water
- ⅓ cup heavy cream
- 1 ⅓ packed cups (5 ounces) grated sharp cheddar cheese
- ½ teaspoon mustard powder
- ⅛ teaspoon garlic powder
- ⅛ teaspoon onion powder
- Tiny pinch of cayenne pepper, or a dash of your favorite hot sauce
Instructions
- Bring a medium pot of water to boil. Add the noodles and salt. Cook until the pasta is al dente, according to package directions. In the meantime, make sure all of your ingredients are measured and ready (I combine the dry spices in a small bowl).
- Drain the pasta and leave it in the colander for now. Return the empty pot to medium heat. Immediately add the cream and let the mixture come to a boil. Once boiling, set a timer for 1 minute.
- Once the minute is up, add all of the cheese and spices. Stir until the cheese has fully melted to produce a creamy sauce. Add the pasta, stir until the pasta is evenly coated in cheese sauce, and remove the pot from the heat.
- Taste and season with salt, if necessary. Serve immediately.
Notes
Make it gluten free: Substitute your favorite sturdy gluten-free noodles, such as a corn and quinoa blend.
Change it up: To make this mac and cheese a little more sophisticate, sprinkle your bowls with some finely grated Parmesan cheese and toasted bread crumbs. See my note above in the “lighten-up” section on how to incorporate broccoli or other veggies.
How to reheat: This mac and cheese is best enjoyed fresh, but you can gently reheat it in the microwave or on the stove. Don’t overdo it; the ingredients are more likely to separate if they are overheated.
Nutrition
The information shown is an estimate provided by an online nutrition calculator. It should not be considered a substitute for a professional nutritionist’s advice. See our full nutrition disclosure here.
This has me drooling. Next time I’m craving mac and cheese, will definitely try this recipe! Thanks, Kate!
Hooray! Mission accomplished. Let me know what you think, Tova.
I love your recipe your mac an chesse it was delicious my family and friends enjoyed more recipe Kate !!!!!
Can you please define ‘sharp’ cheddar in this recipe? Since most kids prefer boxed macaroni over anything else made from scratch, I am going to use this recipe at our kids camp this summer. Brilliant and thank you.
There are different flavors or sharpness to cheddar cheese- mild and sharp. Hope this helps! It will say on the packing.
My kids have been obsessed with mac & cheese lately so I was very happy this showed up in my inbox. I tried the bechamel version too and let’s face it, it sucked. Until now our favorite is still Annie’s from a box (if you add cubes of cooked ham and a side of broccoli it’s really good!).
I want to try this recipe this week so went online to order the spices. Just one question though – is it mustard powder or mustard seed powder you use?? (assuming there is a difference). Thanks!!
You’re welcome! Kids and mac and cheese, of course.:) Mustard powder is what you will want. Hope this helps!
This looks SO GOOD!!
Thank you!
Is there supposed to be nutmeg? I don’t see it listed in the ingredients
Nope! I omitted her nutmeg and added my favorite mac and cheese spices.
Even though I’m vegan, I just had to read about this macaroni and cheese recipe because it reminded me of childhood! I will try out your vegan mac n’ cheese very soon–so excited!
Yes, the vegan mac and cheese is great too!
Hi! Do you think this would freeze well? Thanks!
Hi Elena! That’s a good question. This recipe might be tricky given the dairy content, but I’ve had good luck freezing lasagna so I’m really not sure. If you try it, please let me know.
Hi there! I was SO EXCITED to see this new recipe pop up! I had mac and cheese on the menu for tonight and decided to try this one. One question – is it supposed to be 1/2 tsp. mustard powder? That’s what I added and it was ALL I could taste. It was such a bummer! I will definitely try this recipe again and just use less next time. Thanks for sharing this with us!
Hi Rebecca, I’m super bummed to hear about the mustard powder. Yes, it’s supposed to be 1/2 teaspoon. It’s very subtle when I’ve made it. I just checked other mac and cheese recipes and this seems like a pretty standard amount. Are you sure you grabbed mustard powder? Was it regular mustard powder? Hoping this isn’t a common issue! Sorry again.
Oh my goodness, please don’t apologize! I love you and your recipes so much! It was regular mustard powder – could just be that mine was stronger or something. I was just curious to see if anyone else had the same issue. No worries! Again, thank you for all you do! Recipe’s from your site are the only vegetarian meals that my hubby really loves. You’re amazing!
+1 over here for the overwhelming mustard flavor! I love your recipes, but unfortunately this one was a miss for us. :/ My search for the perfect stove top mac and cheese continues. But thank you for continuing to share your talents!!
I just made this tonight and was overwhelmed by mustard. I had a good brand of sharp cheddar too so I thought the cheese would have stood up to it. Also, when do you pull your pan off the heat? I had some problems with the milk boiling so fast there the minute was up the cream was almost gone.
I had this same experience. I suspected initially that my flavor balance was off because I only had medium cheddar on hand, not sharp. However, now that I think about it, I’ve seen 1/2 tsp mustard powder for recipes using 12-16 oz of dry pasta. So maybe that’s too much for 2-3 servings?
I still loved this recipe. I have botched the bechamel version more times than I can count, and this one actually worked.
I love mac and cheese too. They’re always tasty all the time :)
My vegetable I often add is broccoli xD
It’s so good! Thanks Natalie for the comment.
I’m so glad you posted a mac and cheese recipe that doesn’t require a bechamel sauce. For whatever reason I just don’t like it, maybe because growing up in Switzerland we never had it. Funny thing is though that your recipe is fairly similar to a very traditional Swiss dish called “Älplermagronen” (alpine farmer’s macaroni) which – just like mac and cheese – can be made in the oven or on the stovetop. It’s a mix of potatoes and macaroni in a sauce of cream and aged cheese (typically gruyere) topped with fried onions and apple sauce on the side. My husband who grew up in the US thinks it’s a genetic disorder to eat apple sauce with it…
“Sometimes called herdsman’s macaroni, alplermagronen is a traditional all-in-one dish from the German part of Switzerland. It uses all the ingredients that were available to the herdsmen who were looking after their cows on the mountain pastures of the slopes of the Alps: cheese, potatoes, onions, macaroni, milk or cream – and apples. The classic version is made by layering cooked potatoes and macaroni with cream and cheese, baking it in the oven and then serving it with fried onion rings and a stewed apple sauce on top.” (expatica.com)
Thanks for sharing, Jeannette!
I’m going to have to add Kate’s version and the Swiss one to my menus this week. My kids will be thrilled!
Your kids will love your meal plan for the week ;-). Curious to know if you like the Swiss version. I just had it last Saturday before it (finally) gets warmer here!
OMG!! This is one of my childhood faves
I know, me too! That’s why I had to get one on the blog. :)
yum! I am such a sucker for mac & cheese!
kari
Aren’t we all!
This looks so delicious! I can’t wait to make some using my Rumiano Family Organic Sharp Cheddar & Salted Butter! It’s life changing stuff! Grass fed, non-GMO, organic, high quality cheese & butter. Mmm.
Let me know what you think, Kayla! I appreciate the review.
I so appreciate all the work you put into perfecting this recipe, thank you! I’ve loved the idea of homemade mac and cheese, but the results in every recipe I’ve tried so far were just meh. I was so bummed — and we went right back to the blue box you mentioned :). I can’t wait to try this ~ yay for real food!
Thank you! It took time for sure, but now it’s just right. Love to hear what you think when you try it, Carissa.
Pasta is my all time favorite recipe!!I am enjoying looking at this Thanks for sharing!!
You’re welcome, Rose!
My apologies, I should have been more specific. There are quite a few varieties of sharp cheddar out there ie ‘old’ yellow cheddar (cheaper), aged Balderson white (expensive). I’d be interested to know what brand you used because the taste can be quite different based on which sharp cheddar I use.
Hi Janice, thanks for the clarification! I’ve used a variety of cheddar cheeses for this mac—inexpensive to expensive. I can’t recall the name of the best one, so I would say use your favorite brand.
Hi,
i really want to try this. What do you mean by cream? what type of cream where you referring to?
Heavy cream from the ingredient list. I hope this helps!
Thanks for introducing me to the easiest homemade mac and cheese I’ve ever tried! I made this for dinner a couple nights ago, and it turned out deliciously. Sadly I didn’t have any heavy cream so I used half-n-half, and it was still good— but I’ll definitely go for the cream next time (and probably white instead of whole wheat pasta, just to make me feel like a kid again). I was curious to see if this technique (boiling the cream, then stirring in cheese for an easy sauce) could work for a parmesan-based white sauce, and it totally did! So much easier than making a roux and spending forever whisking the ingredients.
You’re very welcome, Lisa! I’m glad both worked out well. Parmesan white sauce, delicious!
I made this tonight, loved it! Thank you.
You’re welcome, Roger!
Made this delish dish tonight with added broccoli. Had to sub (bit more) prepared mustard for powder (magically out ♀️) and it was still tasty. Thanks C+K!
Welcome, Tracy!
Ohh, thanks for the evaporated milk suggestion. I haven’t had velveeta in decades, but rememember it fondly from my childhood. I make my Mac and cheese with a Julia Child bechemel and I agree it is slightly grainy. The best part, is that I always have the ingredients in the house. Whipping cream sounds delicious, but I would have to plan ahead and make a trip to a store that sells one of the the carrageenan/additive free brands(Sassy Cow, Deans Dairy Pure). On the other hand, I always have milk in the house, which can easily be evaporated. Plan to try it both ways, evaporated milk and whipping cream.
Let me know what you think!
It was 5 thumbs up at our house! It was a bit stringy with the evaporated milk, but still tasted delicious. I think it helped that the recipe had double the cheese of the bechemel kind. Unfortunately one can only add so much cheese to a bechemel sauce before the sauce breaks. Thanks again for the recipe, it will be my new go to Mac and cheese. I will have to try it with whipping cream next time. My husband and I agreed the onion and garlic made a huge difference.
When I make Mac and cheese, I use cornstarch instead of flour. One cup milk, two tablespoons butter and 2 tablespoons cornstarch, as much cheese as you like, a teaspoon of dry mustard powder and 1/2 teaspoon smoked paprika makes a sauce that is never floury!
Thank you, Ruth for sharing!
Wow. This made me hungry. Next time i gonna try it!
Let me know what you think!
I just made this, it is excellent. I am leaving my weird, grainy, bechamel using days behind and I will be using this recipe going forward!
Win! I’m happy to hear that, Katelyn. Thanks so much for your review.
This was great! Perfect comfort food I needed and didn’t feel too guilty about it – I used whole wheat and added leftover frozen peas, also added some sriracha at the end. I actually had tried Melissa Clark’s a while ago but prefer the combo of spices you picked. Will definitely make again and change up the veggie combo!
I love your additions, Cathy! That sounds great. Thank you for your review.
This is really good! I add extra garlic powder and cayenne. There’s only two of us and we are not big eaters. Leftovers make a great frittata!
Thank you for sharing, Edith!
This recipe wasn’t overly gooey like so many others I have tried. The sharp cheddar added a lot of flavor to the dish. It was nice not to make a bechamel sauce but the cheese seemed to harden quickly as the dish cooled down. My husband loved this mac and cheese but was disappointed that there wasn’t leftovers! I will definitely make this again.
That’s a win, Julie! Thank you for sharing.
Hi Cookie and Kate, I did make your recipe. It was wonderful! I did make some changes because of what I had on hand. I used 2% milk, 1/2 cup, crumbled cooper cheese a little more than the recipe called for. It looked a little thin when it boiled, so I added 1 tablespoon butter and 1/2 tablespoon sifted flour which thickened it up nicely. It boiled up again, I let it boil for a minute and poured it into the leftover rotini I had on hand. When it’s time to pour the cheese sauce out of the pan, be sure to have your pasta nearby. The sauce will burn the bottom of the pan as it is poured out. Just do it quickly and it won’t burn the bottom of the pan very much. I did use garlic salt because that’s all I had, but I didn’t think it was too salty. It was so good!
Love to hear your variations, Linda! Thanks so much for sharing. I appreciate the review.
Very good and easy recipe. I used 1/2 Trader Joe’s caramelized onion cheddar and another good quality cheddar. I also shredded in some carrots.
Thank you, TeeJay for sharing! I appreciate the review.
My kids and I made and enjoyed this last night. It had a lot of flavor and was certainly very creamy. The leftovers aren’t nearly as good as the fresh-off-the-stove dish, so I’d recommend only making what will get eaten right away. Thanks for a tasty and simple mac and cheese recipe!
Thanks for sharing, Kristina!
My two toddlers love it! They love pasta in general but my daughter doesn’t like tomato sauce. So I decided to try this recipe and it’s a winner! Thank you again for another successful recipe!!!
You’re welcome, Karin! I’m glad it could satisfy your family.
Super easy. I made a double batch for 4 under 5 yr olds and 1 adult. They demolished it. We only have enough leftovers for 2 kid servings!
I love that! Thank you, Megan for sharing.
Are you saying to use 160z of pasta for This recipe? In the list of ingredients it states 8oz and also (2cups) instead of 16oz? PLease clarify; I will make this shortly
Yes, roughly 2 cups for this type of pasta is 8 oz. Hope this helps!
Very bland. I have had better
I’m sorry to hear you were disappointed, Ginger.
Just found this recipe and already made it twice! I don’t keep powdered onion, garlic, or mustard, so I threw in a veeery thin slice of onion and a clove of garlic while the cream was heating. I then added about 1/8 teaspoon of prepared mustard with the cheese and a dash of pepper. My husband was raised on the boxed kind and he loves this!!
Thanks for sharing! I’m glad this won your husband over, Kelly. I appreciate the review!
Has anyone tried freezing this recipe? Looking forward to making it:D
You can always search through reader comments to see if anyone has had any luck! I don’t freeze all my recipes, but I know a lot of readers sdo give it a try.
Lost my recipe. then I found soooo many macaroni casseroles! bam! i found yours, started to read, obeyed your instructions and! you have a 5-star recipe because mine came out perfect! So simple and tasty and I am tickled pink. thank you!
Lovely, Kay! Thank you for sharing your comment and review.
Sorry. Sadly, this one didn’t work for me. I must have done something wrong. It was stringy and a mess to clean. Not creamy and yummy looking like the picture. If you have any suggestions on where I may have made my mistake I’d be happy to hear and try this one again.
I’m sorry to hear that, Paula! Hmm…that’s interesting! Did you let the cream come to a boil, then add the cheese? It needs to be boiling and then set the timer for one minute?
Thanks for replying. I feel like I did that but I’ll try again. It looks so good in the picture I’m determined to get this right!
Hi Paula, I hope it turns out perfectly for you next time. Be sure to use sharp cheddar cheese (not another variety of cheese), and don’t let the cream boil for any longer than 1 minute. It should turn out just like the pictures. :)
I second this. I followed the recipe to a T and it came out so stringy. My 3 year old wouldn’t even it because of the texture. I am wondering if it has something to do with my stovetop temperature since they all vary. Maybe mine was too hot and letting it boil for a whole minute made it less saucy? When I put the cream in, it immediately started boiling on the edges if that makes sense, but I let it sit for a minute anyway. I may try again though bc it is an easier version of mac and cheese than others I’ve tried. Oddly however, my oops version was better the following days than fresh lol, so there’s one positive!
1/3 cup of cream/half and half seems like too little. By the time it’s been boiling for a full minute there’s almost nothing left. The cheese becomes stringy.
Hi Marie, very sorry to hear that you were dissatisfied by the recipe. Did you use sharp cheddar cheese and set the timer for exactly one minute? It sounds like your cream reduced too much—perhaps it spent too much time on the stove, or your temperature was a little too high. I hope you’ll give this recipe another shot! It’s my favorite.
Hi C&K, I made your stovetop mac&cheese and it is great. I am celiac and my Italian wife (from Kansas City) is not so I made 2 kinds of pasta (regular and gluten-free) and made the sauce in 2 separate iron skillets. Then mixed the pastas into the 2 skillets and, bingo, 2 delicious bowls of creamy, cheesy Mac and cheese. ‘Best I ever had” my wife said. I think next time I might start with sautéed diced onion and then add to sauce along with peas. Call it “Mac, Cheese and Peas”. Thanks. Eddie
Best ever? I will take the compliment! Thanks for sharing, Eddie.
I am going to make this but I am confused when you said to drain the pasta and then into the empty pan add the cream and let the mixture come to a boil. What mixture?
Hi Martha! Let the cream come to a boil, then you will add in the cheese – see step three. Hope this helps!
Love the recipe. It turned out delicious and it is chilly out so it was heartwarming also. Thank you!
You’re welcome, Brenda!
Hi Kate,
Have you tried freezing this and then reheating in microwave after thawing? I am looking for a mac and cheese that will travel well.
Your recipes continue to be my nightly go-to. Just made your apple muffins last week. Delicious with no guilt. Your lentil soup is a staple aroun here. Made it last night with brussel sprout greens. I could go on…
Hi Deborah! I haven’t tried with this one. Since this one is best consumed right away, I knot sure how that would work. Typically, recipes with dairy don’t freeze the best.
I halved this recipe to make it for one and it was soooo good! I’ve been testing different stovetop mac recipes all month and this is hands down my favorite.
Thanks for sharing, Eryn!
Stumbled on your blog today and made this recipe for dinner. It was awesome and a definite keeper! Excited to try more!
Thanks for sharing! I’m glad you stumbled.:)
Hi! I’m planning to make a number of C+K recipes this Thanksgiving — including this the kids. I hope to make it on Wednesday and reheat on Thursday. Do you think I could bake it as a reheat option?
This is really best served immediately. You can reheat it, but reference my notes. :)
Method is quick and easy. Sauce is creamy. The only issue is with the taste of the spices. They overpowered the taste of the cheddar. I will try making it again with just salt or a little tiny bit of paprika like the blue box uses.
I’m sorry you felt that way! Yes, alter the spices to your liking, Micheline.
Absolutely amazing. I bought your book and have made almost every entree, have yet to be disappointed. Thank you!
Hooray!! Thanks for your support, Mallory. I’m glad you love this recipe and the book.
Hi Kate! Making this for the kids for Christmas Eve! Let me ask you- if I was going to steam and mash up carrots to blend in with this recipe to give the kids some hidden veggies since I know they won’t eat any at a big family party like this, how/when do you suggest I do this? I tried a version of this (delicious) at a kids’ playplace and thought i could make my own! Thanks :)
I haven’t tried it, but I would try after you have mixed in the cheese sauce. Let me know how it goes! Sneaky!
What percent of heavy cream is in this recipe…the highest we have is 35 percent for whipping cream and before that is 18 percent table cream
Hi Tara, I used and recommend the whipping cream option.
Hi! If I want to make this with whole milk (no cream) do I need to make any other change?
Thanks!
It might be a little more watery. Let me know what you think! Keep a close eye on it, but it might need to cook slightly longer to get the thicker consistency.
I don’t know if it was the milk but it was really bad. The problem was the cheese was melty instead of liquidy. Like pizza cheese. So to fix my preg craving I had the boxed kind yesterday I really want to get this right lol any ideas?